Session Date/Time: 18 Mar 2026 08:30
This is a verbatim transcript of the video.
Roman Danyliw: Well, good afternoon, everyone. And if you're joining us from remotely from some place around the world, welcome to the plenary session of IETF 125 here in Shenzhen. Uh, it's my pleasure to facilitate this evening. My name is Roman Danyliw and I'm chair of the IETF. Next slide, please.
Uh, as a reminder, you've already agreed to a number of processes and kind of policies here at the IETF. This note well just highlights some but not all of them to include our guidelines for conduct, our intellectual property rights, uh it describes and has references to our standards process and our working group guidelines, in addition to things like our IETF privacy statement. If you need, if you have any questions about this, please do talk to a working group chair or an area director. Next slide, please.
Cindy, could I have the next slide, please?
Cindy: We are seeing the agenda slide right now.
Roman Danyliw: Ah, okay. I am seeing it uh as well. There's latency at times on the internet. Uh, so we have a very full agenda as we normally do. Uh, first, we're going to open with a greeting from our- our meeting host. Then we are going to have a series of reports from the leadership bodies and committees. Next slide. Then we're going to hear from the IETF Trust and uh after that is going to be the IETF Administration LLC report. Uh and we always have time at the end forming the bulk of the meeting, uh open mic for the community to ask questions of the different leadership bodies. This year, the- this time we're meeting the order is going to be the IAB, the ISG, and then the IETF LLC. Next slide, please.
So before we get started, I wanted to gi-, you know, give a ho-, a huge thank you to not only those that work so tirelessly befor the meeting kind of starts and kind of here on site, like the secretariat, the Meet Echo team, the NOC team, and all of the LLC staff. But also acknowledge all the hard work of the people that help us be productive even once we arrive on site. Uh, a big thank you to the RFC Production and the- and IANA that push the documents as far forward in the pipeline and do the codepoint assignments, you know, as quickly kind of as possible so when we arrive at the meeting we're prepared to have discussions for the latest state. So I just wanted to again publicly kind of thank all of those individuals for their contribution. Please join me in welcoming them.
Well, thank you for that. So next, I would invite to the stage Mr. Xian Kai, the deputy director of the Bureau of Information and Telecommunications Administration in the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology for s-, for a welcome and a greeting for us here.
Xian Kai: (Translated from Mandarin Chinese) Respectful Roman Danyliw, Chairperson, and Acting Director, Ladies and Gentlemen, Friends, good afternoon. It is my great honor to join global internet technology experts in Shenzhen for the 125th meeting of IETF. On behalf of the Information and Telecommunications Administration of the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, I would like to extend a warm welcome to all guests and friends from afar. I also would like to offer warm congratulations on the smooth opening of the meeting. Sincere gratitude is also extended to friends from various countries who have long cared for and supported the development of China's internet. As an influential international organization in the internet field, IETF has made irreplaceable contributions since its founding in formulating core internet protocols, architecture, and technical standards. It has laid a solid technical foundation for the global prosperity and development of the internet, for which we express high appreciation. China upholds the spirit of openness, inclusiveness, cooperation, and mutual benefit, adheres to open technological cooperation, and supports the internet technology community. It also supports deepening international exchanges, active participation in the formulation of international technical standards, interconnectivity of network infrastructure, and promoting the construction of a peaceful, safe, open, cooperative, and orderly cyberspace. We aim to contribute to a globally sustainable and innovatively evolving internet. At present, new technologies in the internet field are emerging one after another, and technologies such as artificial intelligence are deeply integrated with the internet, bringing both development opportunities and new challenges. We look forward to this meeting as an opportunity to jointly and deeply discuss cutting-edge internet technology and innovation ideas. We also look forward to this meeting promoting more pragmatic cooperation results among all parties and jointly building a high-quality global internet industry development. Let us join hands to explore innovation, courageously lead the trends, jointly build a community with a shared future in cyberspace, and let digital civilization better benefit people globally. Finally, I wish everyone smooth work and a pleasant life during your time in Shenzhen. Thank you all.
Roman Danyliw: Mr. Xian, thank you for your very kind words and your welcome as we have returned back to China after almost a decade since we last met here. I now welcome to the stage Miss Zhang Xiao, the deputy director of CNNIC. We wanted to extend our sincere kind thank you for all of your leadership and work in making this meeting happen, happen for us here. We have a small token of appreciation presented to us by our board.
Thank you so much for making this meeting happen for us. All right. Uh, so next slide. So we now are going to move into the portion of the agenda where the different leadership bodies are going to provide their reports. I am first, uh, from the perspective of the ISG. Uh, I tried to slim down the content we had here. I have a much more robust report. Please take a, if you're interested in more details for, for what I'm going to talk about here, uh, or additional facts and kind of figures and summary since we last met, please do click on that link that says full report and you'll see there's additional information. It's been updated a few times since it was initially issued. So next slide, please.
And actually, if you could just jump uh one more slide as well. Uh, we have had a very robust meeting here in- in Shenzhen and I wanted to put this all in kind of context. We are, we are assembling as the largest group uh on site and that we've gathered in at least two years, maybe a little more in the historical figures. Uh, this is the largest meeting we've had in Asia and the largest meeting we've had anywhere based on the registration count. So, you know, phenomenal to see the community to come together. Uh, you'll see that the distribution of remote and on site is within the bands that we've had in historical, in historical meetings. I think the one piece of excitement that I, of the- of the early stats that I saw coming in is that if you look, if you look around, uh, you know, and you're sitting to your see-, to your left are two people and, you know, one other person to your right, one of those people is new to the IETF unless you are. Uh, so one-quarter of, almost one-quarter of participants here at the IETF have never been to a meeting before and we're delighted to have them here as part of the community. Uh, if you are one of those newcomers to the IETF, all I can say is welcome. We're thrilled that you're here helping us shape the future of the internet. Uh, please join a mailing list. Uh, you know, please do continue to engage in the working groups after this face-to-face time concludes, and we hope that maybe we'll also see you in Vienna or perhaps in San Francisco, the future venues uh we have for our meetings. Next slide, please.
Uh, unsurprisingly we have participation from around the world and you can see some of the more detailed statistics here and also equally unsurprisingly uh we have a very, very robust participation from China given that we are here. Next slide, please.
Since we last got together, the IESG has issued no statements and the- the majority of what we focused on in our announcements is was related to an appointment to the IETF Trust and to the IPMC. So first we want to publicly say very much kind of thank you to Sean Turner who has been selected and we really appreciate your willingness to serve, Sean. Uh, we also did an announcement uh for calling for volunteers for BCP 245 moderators, and I'm going to just talk about that a little bit later. Next slide, please.
Uh, we continue to process appeals. Uh, we received two appeals since we last got together and we processed both of them. You can see from the historical, from the chart on the historical appeal volumes that uh 2025 was, was a record with a look back of almost kind of 10 years. Next slide, please.
Uh, I just wanted to take this opportunity since all the other areas have their summaries of what's happening to talk a little bit about what's happening in the General area, primarily because everything that happens in Gen affects each and every one of you in the room, uh because the processes defined in Gen impact every working group and everything published in the IETF stream. Uh, to showcase, if you are interested in anything related to how IANA and codepoints are specified here in IETF documents, please join us in the IANA BIS working group. If you aspire to- to tailor, to change or to evolve how we run the standards process, how working groups operate, please join us in the Procon working group, the process document and consolidations. If you have interest in contributing around how intellectual property is managed here at the IETF, please join the IPR-W working group. Uh, actively being discussed now is setting requirements for the transition to the IPMC and updates to our intellectual property framework in RFC 5378. To- to return back to that one announcement that I s-, I said I'd talk more about, the MODPOD working group worked very hard and delivered their primary- their primary artifact which was RFC 9945 which defines a new approach to community moderation in- in the IETF. This was recently approved. To realize that and to implement that process, that first step is the IESG needs to appoint uh at least five moderators whose first task is going to be write those procedures and then of course uh execute them as moderators. We are calling to the community if uh to f-, we are of a call to the community to seek moderators, so if you are interested in that role, please let the IESG know. Also, if you think someone would be excellent in that role even if it is not you, we welcome that feedback as well and we'll consider it and we'll- we'll reach out to them. And then the last- the last highlight is that the IAB, who is in charge of liaison relationships, working with the other standards kind of organizations, is revising those procedures which are codified in RFC 4052 and 4053 and they're being actively discussed on the architecture discuss...
It appears we've lost Roman, if we could please stand by for one minute.
Roman Danyliw: All right, I think I'm back.
Cindy: You are back.
Roman Danyliw: Excellent. Uh, as I was saying, the liaison procedures are being revised and so if outreach and interconnect with other standards organizations is your passion, this- this will also be another time to engage, so hop on architecture discuss to get into the early discussion and we're going to be bringing that into- into the IETF. Uh, so next slide, please.
Uh, so I wanted to- to almost end th-, this thing with two thank yous. So the first, I wanted to acknowledge that the vast majority of your ADs are sponsored by someone, uh they pay for their time and pay for their travel and this enables for them to be here to- to sort of the community and also to do that each and every- each and every week. And here is an acknowledgment of those entities that make that possible for the ADs.
Next slide, please. And then I wanted to end with uh with another thank you, which is to Stephanie McCammon. So for those of you who are not aware, Stephanie currently supports us as the director of meeting operations and sponsorships. Uh, but she will be unfortunately exiting from that role. For the last 20 almost 20 years, Stephanie has worked to give us this productive space that we are in now in so many places around the world, about 54 of those. And that space that she's given us has allowed the velocity of our standardization to continue to reach and penetrate and make the- to penetrate all the technologies kind of around the world uh in an interoperable kind of fashion and to really make the internet operate. No detail has been too small for her, whether it's making sure that we are in this venue and these venues uh can service the- the kinds of conversations that we need to have. But she's also worked tirelessly to help us pay for our ability to convene in all these places. That's been the two parts about the Meeting Ops and in the sponsorship. And as you can see there, uh I don't know how many times around the world you've now flown on our behalf uh Stephanie and honestly the years you've been away from your family and friends to allow us to be productive here with, you know, really all we can say is thank you, thank you so much, and- and best of luck with your- with your next kind of engagement uh and the next kind of part of your career and your opportunities. So thank you so much on behalf of the community.
So next slide, please. I now turn it over to Dhruv Dhody, who congratulations is the new chair of the IAB.
Dhruv Dhody: Hello, everyone. I'm Dhruv Dhody, I'm the incoming IAB chair. Uh, next slide, please. Perfect. Yes. So, we have the full IAB report, which you can find on our website as well as uh on the IETF 125 proceedings, but this we will keep it short and sweet. Uh, we did one workshop recently in December, which was on IP address geolocation. Uh, the initial report is out and we had a good discussion in the IAB Open as well, so check out those videos as well as the videos of the whole workshop, everything is available on our IAB page and DataTracker. Uh, we did a bunch of outreach activities. Uh, we were at the ICANN 85 last week in Mumbai, which went quite well. Warren and I were there. Warren was also at the APRICOT and APNIC meeting in Jakarta where we talked about what's happening at this IETF meeting and inviting more participants from the operator from the region to come to Shenzhen. As well as uh Roman was at WSIS+20 high-level UN meeting where the outcome document was adopted by consensus, which is something we from the technical community and IAB has been participating at. Uh, appeals, we responded to three appeals since the last IETF meeting. And with that, let me pass it on to Dirk, who will talk about IRTF.
Dirk Kutscher: Thank you, Dhruv. Hello, I'm Dirk Kutscher, I'm the IRTF chair. So before I give you uh my updates, I'd like to say a few words. So as IRTF chair, I see it as my job to, you know, bring in new communities, especially uh the younger generation, the next generation uh in our community. So we're doing quite a bit of outreach, training and so on. And so at this meeting, uh I have received really great um support, I just realized um in the past days. So there has been um a Young Talent Program in China supported by some of the sponsors here that brought 60 students uh from like 30 different universities uh to this meeting. There has been um a research fellowship program in Malaysia um that brought students here not only this meeting but also previously. And um there is a program in Brazil that brought um 18 people uh to this meeting. And so the Brazilian friends um they had the longest journey by far, so they were on the road or in the plane for two or three days. And um could the Brazilians people maybe please stand up so we can see you. Welcome to the IETF. So they- they come all this way to, you know, engage with us, to meet the experts, to meet the leadership, and I really hope um this um will be worthwhile. Um, okay, so in the IRTF um we have 16 research groups uh at the moment and um 11 of them um are meeting this week, so we still have meetings by Crypto Forum, RASP RG, and Network Management RG coming up in the next two days, please check that out. Um, then uh we have the Applied Networking Research Workshop and the Applied Networking Research Prize. That's these two instruments are intended to raise the profile of our community in the research community, support high-quality research, and also, yeah, get new ideas, uh new people in. And um ANRW, um the workshop is kindly supported by ACM SIGCOMM and Akamai. And we do this yearly at our summer IETF meeting, so next one will be in Vienna, uh IETF 126. Um the workshop chairs are Thomas Schmidt and Suresh Krishnan. Thanks very much for doing the work. The call for papers is open, please submit your papers until April 17th. The um Applied Networking Research Prize recognizes the best results in applied networking um from uh like last year. So what we do is um we um uh nominate uh like top contributions in the field of applied networking and then there's a selection committee um that picks um the best ones. Um and this is supported by ISOC, Comcast and NBC Universal. And quite often we get um, you know, really, really top papers on um topics that are really relevant and also quite- quite current at the moment in the IETF. And so just today in IRTF Open, uh we had uh two ANRP um winners. Um so we had uh Tianni Gao and he was awarded for his work on transport-level encryption for datacenter networks. And Shangjie Huang for his work on sending burstiness control for high-quality real-time communication. Congratulations. Um, so this week we actually had two IRTF Open meetings, so one just uh before, and on Tuesday we had one that was um dedicated uh on discussing um internetworking research challenges for AI. So we know I mean there are many discussions on the broader topic, so we wanted to figure out um what could be a productive role for the IRTF in this field. So beyond data centers, beyond um the immediate engineering challenges, um there's a lot of work going on in academia and, you know, at conference and so on. We want to figure out, okay, how can we make this useful um for our larger community. So we invited two really great um presentations um on different aspects and had good- good discussion um on potential topics. So what we identified so far was, you know, testbeds and datasets for reproducible experiments, um like the bit broader distributed system and protocol design um for distributed learning and inference platforms. Um there are new architectures coming out and, you know, new abstractions for like collective communications and so on. Um, but also uh more principled approaches towards uh agent communication. Um you know also a hot topic in all of these side meetings and also the BoF this morning. Um but so the idea here is to look a bit more into um the foundations of, you know, naming, identity, trust delegation, and also group communication. And uh yeah finally, we also have a travel grant program so that's intended to bring early career researchers and PhD students uh to our community from underrepresented groups. And this is kindly supported by Akamai, Comcast, Google and Netflix. And um yeah so this time we had a robust um participation uh from- from Asia, really good gender balance. And um so we are already preparing the next program for Vienna and so the deadline for applications is end of next week. If you're interested or if you know somebody um who might be, please let them know. Thank you very much.
Dhruv Dhody: Thank you. So this is my last report as the IETF Nomcom chair for this cycle. These were the people of the Nomcom 25-26 cycle, the voting members. Some of them are here, so please thank them if you see them in the hallway. I've seen- I've seen one of my Nomcom members in the Tokyo remote hub, so people in Tokyo thank him also. Um, and here are the non-voting members, the liaisons and my advisor Deon. Good. But that's not- it's not about us, it's about the selection for this year. So we're very happy with the current selection, so we had one can-, one selection for the LLC board, one for the Trust, IETF Trust and IPMC, six uh selection candidates, selected candidates uh for the IAB, two-term uh period, and for this year the IETF Chair and for the six areas candidates and assigned for- for the period of two years. So I like to thank all the people that are willing to serve for the next term, willing to serve the IETF. Thank you very much. Good. One thing I want to mention is diversity, of course, that's something that's important to us, to our community, and also to the Nomcom. Uh, we got a day training this year like last year uh about unconscious bias, etc. So that's important. Um, I think that's something that the Nomcom was very aware of also during the whole process of reviewing interviews and the deliberations. Uh, some highlights here are well, not highlight per se, there's no gender diversity improvement this cycle. So we aware of that, we're conscious of that, but uh of course we try to improve every year, but this is a- this is an observation here. Uh, we improved on regional diversity, that's a good thing. So different voices, different perspectives are good for our community. Um, so there's a constant improvement here and we try to improve the process and the awareness of everything. Um, I call it here the leadership pipeline. Young people, new leadership, next generation leadership. Um, and we also hear that from the community. In every review, all the reviews we received, thank you IETF community for your reviews, for your feedback on the- on the nominees. It's important and stressed, think about the new generation, about the next generation leadership. So um with the incumbents interviewing the nominees that are already in leadership position, the Nomcom members always ask about thinking about your succession. And luckily, most of them think about it and are actually already mentoring candidates for or nominees actually for the next Nomcom cycle. And of course, it's up to the Nomcom in one, two, three, four years to select the nominee, but it's good that we have nominees to select from. So thanks. Um, yeah, as I already said, we are aware of it, we are doing our best. We are in a good place but we can always do better, so it's a constant process. Another thing is well, lessons learned. The fir-, first bullet point is the same as last year and as the- the year before. Um, it's a good document, our RFC 8713, but there inpractical situations, it doesn't say anything about well new situations or things we haven't thought of. Um, so well there's one thing mentioned, the chair can with the Nomcom always come up with a rule and with some voting and decide how to process un- well unaccepted or- or not expected situation. So it worked. Uh, as the same bullet point here, uh the Nomcom process relies on the chair and on the oral tradition. Um and that worked also, but and there's now- now a new point I want to work on, at least some basic documentation how the things work. Some steps, basic steps at least uh how to proceed through the Nomcom as a chair. Um and that could also help with the help of well kind of delegating tasks to the secretary because more and more tasks are now taken care of the secretary so it's good to have some documentation and uh mostly the practical stuff. Um, that's yeah, and also for myself at least, um during the deliberations I spent a little bit too much time on the voting. It's just should be a simple process but I was counting uh the yes and no so simple but yes maybe no that becomes more difficult. And then you have all kind of rankings. So for- I think for the next year it's good to have this a little bit automated so it can focus on the process and on the discussions and not so much on counting uh and making mistakes or being corrected for mistakes. Uh, so finally um yeah, some words of thanks. I want to thank you all for the opportunity to be the Nomcom chair for this cycle. It's very learn- well I learned a lot and it was super interesting and it was very rewarding. Um, also the IETF community was very supportive. In the beginning, I made some mistakes and as you are, you directly sent me an email that I made a mistake but it was always supportive, people helped me out. So thank you. Um, also the Nomcom voting members were very, very dedicated, so it was a great team, I mentioned that already during the- the November IETF meeting. And again the chair's advisors and the liaisons helped me with the process and the advice. It's almost I get an- an award for the Oscar Academy Awards with all the thank yous. Good. Um, before I leave the stage, I want to call out: volunteer for the next cycle of the Nomcom. It's a lot of work, yes it is, but it's also you learn every lot of things about the IETF process, about the people in the IETF and- and its processes. Thank you.
Glenn Deen: Nomcom's a little bit taller than I am. Uh, and I was on that Nomcom, and I will echo: please do the Nomcom, it's a really great experience. You learn so much and you meet some great people. Anyways, I'm Glenn Deen and I'm the outgoing chair of the IPMC corporation and the IETF Trust. This is our report uh to IETF 125. So, uh Nomcoms do what they do and the IESG does what it does and they both appoint people uh to the IETF Trust and the IPMC board. Uh in this cycle, we uh say goodbye to Kristen Bordeau, who has served us as an IESG appointee. Uh Kristen was really helpful, uh she's a lawyer by training, uh very helpful in the restructuring work we've been undergoing doing the IETF IPMC uh creation and setup, so thank you very much for Kristen for your service to the IETF Trust and the IPMC. Then there's this guy. Um, he's been around for quite a while and uh one trivia bit about the IETF Trust and the IPMC roles is they are not term limited. Uh many of our roles at the IETF are term limited. We like people to stick around the IETF Trust to build up institutional knowledge and be able to really help the organization. That doesn't mean you stick around forever and this guy is leaving uh after sticking around for a little while. So I- I've- I've had a lot of fun, I've learnt a lot of stuff. I will say if you're ever looking to learn about intellectual property and the IETF, this is a great role to apply for in the future. Uh when I started it uh back in the day, I was terrified. I was walking in the shadow of giants and I learned so much uh by being part of it. I really highly recommend that you consider it uh this coming year when the Nomcom is appointing another person. So, uh thank you uh for letting me be in that role, I've really enjoyed it. So, we have uh a new set of uh directors for the IETF IPMC. Uh a couple of them are carrying over, but we've got two new ones. Lars Eggert is coming in as is Sean Turner. Uh and we've also gone through a cycle of selecting the next president and the other officers, so I'd like to announce that Wendy Seltzer is taking on the role of IPMC President. Sean Turner, who I think is in the Tokyo uh remote, is taking on the role of IPMC Treasurer, which Wendy has vacated. Uh and Lars will be taking on the IPMC Secretary. Likewise, uh the IETF Trust is in the final throes, but we still needed uh some people around to help us close up shop. Uh and so the decision was made that the person uh that will be the Trust chair uh for the very final role of the Trust will be Wendy. So, uh thank you Wendy for taking on both roles. All right, so that's the in and the out stuff. Let's talk about uh what we've been doing. So, uh we like to give a report and usually these numbers are zero because, you know, Trust is set up to be very boring, and when everything's perfect it is very boring. Uh but since we last met in Montreal, we've had two licensing requests uh that are above and beyond the normal licensing requests we get, and we have issued one new license, it was to the IEEE uh to use the ASN 1 module from RFC 9881. So there, we- we got one. Uh the other good news though is we have had zero legal actions, which is the number you always want to see at that bottom there. It means that we never- we didn't sue anybody and we didn't get sued by anybody, uh which is really good when you deal in intellectual property assets. So here is the other uh big update. It- we've been working on this restructuring from a Virginia Trust into a Delaware Corporation. And those of you who've been around the IETF for a little while, I've been giving a lot of reports on this. So, we've had some progress. Uh the bylaws were updated uh between when we met in Montreal and now. Uh we had uh some modifications we extended in there to recognize the CCG. This is part of the community agreement that we took on when we- when we took on the IANA assets back in 2016 and we updated the IPMC bylaws to recognize the CCG's role uh with relation to the IANA assets. So this formally connects that group with the bylaws that the IPMC operates under. And that was out for community review, and all of you gave us comments, we took them into account and then in December we actually voted to adopt them, and those are on the IPMC website at that URL. This one's big. It's- we've been working for a couple years now to get this transition done. Last Monday, a week ago Monday, I signed the agreement that formally transferred all of the IETF intellectual property assets from the IETF Trust into the IPMC corporation. The IPMC is now doing the work of managing the IP, except for patents because the IPMC does not do patents, for the IETF. And that is a major milestone. So, um hold your applause on that one because there's something coming up for that one, but I think this is the major- a major moment. It's something we've been working to for years and I'm super happy that we finally got there. We're not fully done yet though. Uh the IANA IP, which is trademarks and domain names related to the IANA function is uh still in process because we need some signatures. There's agreements that establish the role of the IETF Trust with relation to the IANA and there's a set of signatures out for the agreement on those things to transfer those agreements from the IETF Trust to the IPMC. So I've done my signature before I became no longer was the chair. Uh I know that J has done a signature on the behalf of the IAB IETF. If you're one of the people we're waiting for signatures on, sign the document so we can get that thing done. Uh and some final things. Roman mentioned that there's a draft out there to update the IETF's documentation uh because if you look at the IETF documentation it's got the word IETF Trust all over the place. Uh we have a draft out there to update the documentation to recognize the uh IETF IPMC as the successor uh to that so that draft's out there and is active uh it's on that URL for the IPR WG uh email list. And finally the uh Trust Legal Provisions, which are now becoming the Trust Legal Provisions so we can keep that same acronym, are being updated to essentially update the text in there to say that the IPMC is now the party holding the assets for the IETF. One of the changes- there's no legal changes to that document, uh we- same terms, if your lawyers have approved it and- and like it, they're remaining consistent. Two changes though. Since that draft or that document was first written version 5, the editorial stream got created and so we're officially recognizing it in- in the next version. Uh that's just sort of a thing. And the other thing is the independent stream. Uh there's some updates we've been requested by the independent stream editor to make around derivative works, and so there'll be a separate document now published uh especially for- especially for the independent stream. And oh and they'll be published for comment uh for a 30-day period for you to get your voice in. So here's the thing I wanted to recognize. Uh you know, we've done the outgoing for myself and for Kristen, but I think we should also do an outgoing for the IETF Trust. It served this community since 2005 when it was created. Uh it's officially ending operations this year. Uh it's got literally at this point I think about $1,200 in the bank and it has a handful of DNS uh domains that are part of the IANA work. That's it. And so once those agreements are signed, those things are transferred over and it does its final tax- tax filings. It's done. So I- I really did want to have a hand for the IETF Trust uh because it has made this what is the IETF functional and it's done it for uh 21 years. That's quite a- quite a service to this community. And I wanted to recognize all the people during that 21 years who've served as IETF Trustees. Uh this is an unpaid job, they're all volunteers, uh they've done a tremendous amount of work for this community uh and a lot of people don't even know what they do, which is- which is good because it means they didn't get sued, uh because no drama, no excitement. But anyways, for the IETF Trust and for all the people volunteering, could I please have a round of applause? And that is how to contact the IPMC and get more stuff. George. Don't leave the stage. So Glenn, thank you for your many years of service and allow me to present you with this plaque.
Jay Daley: Um hello and welcome. My name is Jay Daley, I'm the IETF Executive Director. Nice to see so many people in the room. So this is the administrative report for the IETF. And I'll start by thanking our IETF 125 host, CNNIC and our co-hosts Xinhua University, the Internet Society of China, CCSA and the Computer Network Information Center of the Chinese Academy of Sciences. Thank you very much. I also want to thank very much Huawei, our special contributor and social event sponsor. Those of you who came last night to the social event, I'm sure will remember that. That is the best social event we have had, that was spectacular. Thank you. And then thank you very much to the welcome reception sponsor ZTE, to our local sponsor APNIC and our local supporters Coremail. Thank you. I also want to thank our IETF 125 gold sponsors for diversity and inclusion. Thank you very much to Akamai and Huawei. And thank you to all of our bronze sponsors for IETF 125. We have Comcast and ICANN for diversity and inclusion. We have ZTE for sustainability, ICANN and CNNIC for running code, and DNIC and Nominet for the open internet. Thank you all very much. And then finally thank you to our equipment services and connectivity sponsors, um without whom it we would have to spend considerably more money running these meetings and running the IETF than we do currently. Thank you very much to all of you. I should particularly like to note China Mobile who and China Unicom who have helped very much with this conference. Um we have staff on site helping us out um with our WiFi, which is uh really going above and beyond. Thank you very much for that. Um every meeting it seems our logos get more and more desirable. Uh so once again I'm happy to tell you we you can get our- our swag from the online store and um we- are taking very seriously the suggestions that we should start um selling more advanced swag here at the meeting, particularly for those people who go running such as our current IETF chair. So um I want to give a special shoutout to the many generous volunteers that help us out. We um in- in building the IETF tools and in running the IETF NOC, we rely on multiple people who um give their time freely to help that work. So thank you very much to all of those people. And um Roman's already mentioned that we have many staff in the background working on this, but I think it's useful for us to give their names and show all of them here. So we have the Secretariat, Meetecho and the NOC. Thank you all very much for your work. Um here at IETF 125, we only have a subset of the IETF uh staff. Uh so I'm on site, clearly. I also have um Greg with me and uh three of our senior developers. They are staffing the tools help desk, so please reach out to them at any point if you'd like to see them. We also have the RPC staff at IETF 125. Alana, Alice and Sandy are here. They are also staffing a desk, so if you have any questions about um RPCs- sorry RFCs or the editing process, please go and speak to them. And finally we have the full Secretariat on site as well. Uh so this is a- a simple diagram of the- current structure there. So em- look out for the green tops they're wearing if you need any support see them. If you need to want to speak about anything in particular, um then please speak to them as well. So finally on the thanks, thank you to our global hosts. Our global hosts are the ones that make the multi-year commitment to the IETF and enable us to have the long-term stability for our funding that we really need. Thank you very much. So IETF 126 Vienna. Um registrations are open. This will be in July. Um we are expecting many of you to come. We are just about to sign with the host for the meeting, so um that's good news for us. Um and I- hope very much to see as many of you as possible there. Looking forward to our meetings. Um we have Vienna coming up and then after that we have IETF 127 in San Francisco. And since our last meeting, you will have seen that we have announced Verisign as the host of that meeting. IETF 128 in Asia, we are still in the negotiations with. It generally takes us quite some time to negotiate Asian venues. Um they are um more complicated. We often have to use um convention centers and- us being a US company means we need to visit a number of times to build up the trust and the relationship. So that's going ahead. Um we certainly aim to announce that by Vienna um if possible. IETF 129 Europe, that was due to be signed and then the venue just asked for a change to the contract the other day, so we are just trying to work through that and then we'll be able to announce that um hopefully quite shortly. IETF 130 in- has now been announced, that's the Hyatt Regency Vancouver that we've been back to a number of times. Um and we are of course looking for a meeting host for that. IETF 131 in Asia, we have held some site visits to um a relatively large country there to look at um potential venues and- we are hoping to- and we're in the negotiations now um about that, so that's moving forwards. IETF 132 Europe um is a little bit um in the back burner while we sort the others out. And IETF 133 is not on here North America, but we are currently exploring um an exploratory meeting in South America for that, okay? So that's where we currently are with our meetings booking. We're a little bit behind, but we have so many of them quite close that we'll catch up quickly and then we'll be a bit ahead, I think by the end of this year on meeting bookings. So that's it for me. Thank you very much. Handing over to Miriam.
Miriam Kühne: Thanks, Jay. I hope you can hear me and see me. Um my name is Miriam Kühne, I'm the board of the um LLC, I'm the chair of the LLC board, that's more correct. And I would like to thank you actually for um selecting me for another term starting at this- at this meeting. Uh I think Cindy's going to control my slides, so please go onto the next slide. Yes, this is the full board. As you can see here, um Gonzalo and George are there with you in person. Um Roman as you saw was um online, I'll be on- I'm online here and- and Shonna cannot join us um for this um meeting. Uh but we're all watching. So next slide, please. Yeah, these are the- this is the kind of traditional financial overview of the um end-of-year um balance. And um I'm not going to go through all the numbers, you can do that in your own time. I mean for transparency reasons obviously we put them here on the slide so they'll be published. You see some notes there, so if we go to the next slide, um you'll see some- explanations. Um more details can be found always in the financial statements that we publish um every month and then also at the end of the year. Overall, one thing to note here is that there are some uh like higher numbers as budgeted, so the positive um variances there are mostly comprised of um an additional endowment contribution, which are always welcome, um ISOC matching funds, um also the annual contributions from ISOC, and some um unrealized gains from investments um that- that we have um there. So um that's um that's good news. So next slide, please. Um just some items that the board is currently working on. Um we're still- working on the um Secretariat contract, we're tendering that's ongoing. Um we've published the um pa-, um the 2026 um budget um after consultation, after community consultations, um so that's out um on the website. Um as you've seen we've piloted the um remote room- we piloted this like new feature with remote rooms for IETF meetings and I've seen the remote room join a couple of sessions, that seems to work really well. And so well thanks mostly to LLC staff and there Greg Wood I think who took the lead um for making this- this possible. And um we're going to evaluate the experiences with this um after the meeting and see how we can- can move forward with that. Um and- and we're also having our annual um retreat in April, the board retreat, we're preparing for that to look at like future planning, well the strategy, a risk register and other um plans that- that we're um that- that we're doing kind of on an annual basis. Um one thing that's not- not on here but that's certainly also on our mind are um yeah meeting network and- and the meeting locations. And- and we really I want to stress that I really appreciate the um the feedback provided so far on the various lists, specifically also on meeting networks. And- and we're looking forward to get more guidance from you on that as well. I know there's a draft currently out on the security requirements for the IETF um network that will be discussed um tomorrow, I believe in Gen Dispatch and then- and we'll see where that goes after that. And so yeah, please watch that space and contribute to that work. Uh next slide, please. Um you can also contribute um to- our work by participating in our board meetings. We have a monthly board meeting. Here are the dates, they are also on the website and- and Michelle the Secretariat, she- she always sends out announcements for the board meetings so they're open to observers um at least like you know partially part of the meetings. We also have some closed sessions with staff and Jay, but- but yes please join us for these- for these board meetings if you have any questions or- or contributions to- to our work. Um next slide, please. I think that's about it. Yes, you can find a lot more information on the website from financial statements um to the board meeting minutes and- and announcements and also here are a number of um of mailing addre- mailing addresses and lists that you can uh reach us. Admin-discuss is our generic kind of at the administrative mailing list where most of these- these topics um are- are being discussed. Um so yeah, I think that's it for now. Thank you for listening.
Roman Danyliw: Well, let's start with thanking the outgoing IAB members. Uh it almost feels like a milestone, we are losing three members who have been there for a while. Uh Cullen, as we know him as Fluffy, and I think now I can claim the fluffiest hair now that he's not on the IAB anymore, maybe. Uh but seriously, uh you have been it's so good to talk to you when we talk any technical discussion you go directly to the heart of the matter and with that much clarity of thought it has been amazing having discussions with you. Mirja, uh you- you have served a decade on the leadership if we add IAB and ISG every term with so much dedication, so much hard work, it has been amazing. The things that you have done as the IAB chair have such a lasting impact. Uh you have opened the IAB with IAB Open, the way we do liaisons, the way we even our website revamp. So everything that- that we think of IAB as current has been done under your leadership and it has been amazing. Tommy, uh on- on the big screen, always calm, collected, always clear in thought. Uh as the IAB chair, you- we went through a transition, we had a bigger geographic and timezone dispersion, we had to figure out a new way to work, you managed that so well and there was so much to learn from you on how to do that. Uh as an IAB we went through a- new activities with respect to more active participation at internet governance and you helped us, you made sure that each of us at the IAB felt supported in all the activities that we do, so thank you. And finally, uh Qin, uh Qin has been our anchor when it comes to everything network management operations and Yang. Uh and this is um and Qin showed us the diverse um participation matters, having a viewpoint from looking from different areas, from different geography, bringing a different viewpoint to this IAB is fundamental and Qin you have shown that in your last two terms. So with that, I would ask everyone to give a round of applause to all four outgoing members. For the two outgoing members who are here, we can use a photo opportunity. Mirja, can I invite you please? And Qin, let's go this way. Uh we won't have the photo opportunity for Tommy and Cullen, but I think maybe somebody can make an AI generated one. And uh with that, let's do introductions and then we'll do open mic. Uh for introductions, let's start with Jason.
Jason Livingood: Jason Livingood, IAB.
Mark Nottingham: Mark Nottingham, IAB.
Mirja Kühlewind: Mirja Kühlewind, outgoing IAB.
Suresh Krishnan: Suresh Krishnan, IAB.
Warren Kumari: Warren Kumari, in a surprising turn of events, IAB.
Yaroslav Rosomakho: Yaroslav Rosomakho, incoming IAB.
Dhruv Dhody: Dhruv Dhody, incoming IAB chair.
Alvaro Retana: Alvaro Retana, IAB.
Yingzhen Qu: Yingzhen Qu, incoming IAB.
Dirk Kutscher: Dirk Kutscher, IRTF chair.
Qin Wu: Qin Wu, outgoing IAB.
Dhruv Dhody: Uh can we have remote folks? Ali?
Ali Rezaki: Ali, yes, sorry, sorry, can you hear me now? Yes. Uh hello, this is Ali, Ali Rezaki, incoming IAB. Thank you.
Cullen Jennings: Fluffy, outgoing. Glad that the fluffiness is remaining on the IAB. Thank you.
Dhruv Dhody: Do we have Jana or I don't see Jana maybe. Matthew?
Matthew Bocci: Yeah hi, Matthew Bocci, IAB.
Nick Sullivan: Nick Sullivan, incoming IAB.
Dhruv Dhody: Uh Roman, how can we miss you? Uh I think we can't hear you, Roman. Okay, move on. Open mic, questions for the IAB. And somebody will help me with the queue. Oh here we are, Arnaud.
Arnaud Tadmore: Right, so uh congratulations to the new IABs and thank you for those that are- that are leaving. Uh so I have a couple of points. Um the first one is to say that I really appreciate the progress done by IAB, especially on the liaison. I think Mirja and Suresh are working on that one and I think this is really good. Um I have a few things that have emerged. Um the first one is speaking about liaison. Um I- I observe for certain areas the need to improve the collaboration framework. Liaisons are good, but they are just one part of the equation. Uh we- we have seen in some areas like DM uh between IETF and SG 17, we started to have leadership that started to speak to each other and- and I must say thank you to Jim Reid. I don't know where Jim is, but uh he was the one who- who pushed us here to do that and that was good. Uh we- we however, it's only this week I realized the difficulty to get people to work with each other. And not that people don't want in fact, but people don't know. And not only don't know but even I don't know. And I don't know how we are going to do it in terms of process, tools, etc. so that's probably something we should explore. Um the second thing is that- um I was approached with a lot of questions after my side meeting on Friday. Uh I would love the idea to be able to present uh what- me or other groups are doing to the IAB so that we can really intimately understand together how we work and- and what could be tangible actions we could do together. Um then the next point is about opportunities. Um there is going to be on the ITU side a- point a plenipotentiary that's supposed to be in Doha. So we'll see what happens but um that's a big opportunity for revising resolutions. And I want to come back on the workshop on digital on protection that the IAB promoted. Now there is the window is slightly open to make a change in this resolution. If you have some desires based on what you are doing now, now is the moment. It never happened in years. And we managed to unlock the doors at member state level. So now they know that they are going to modify it, so if you want to seize this opportunity, do it. The last point is about AI. Aie aie aie. Okay? So here the frustration are the friction of three IETF meetings that each of them had side meetings that took away hundreds of people out of the mainstream. I can understand Madrid, okay. Montreal, hmm. Now again. In fact, this week we did the first official meeting with the BoF catalyst on Agentic AI. So the problem is timing. And so if you move a- if you move your brain until what's going to happen next and you consider a number of risks including for San Francisco in November, um that tells us that we have a problem to bootstrap ourselves there. Um I am doing on my side three meetings, one plenary and one uh content week from now until next July. So it's an offer. I can offer a platform for anybody to discuss the things we could not discuss in the side meetings. Size it, because this will give you input to prepare the July meeting in Vienna. We must have something in concrete in Vienna because if San Francisco is risky that's the only moment we can do something. So we better organize ourselves and do our act together to say exactly what we do in Vienna and and- I will bring all the input you need, uh let's make it happen. So I know it was a lot of things. You don't need to answer now, but these are things we can do offline later.
Dhruv Dhody: Yeah, thank you Arnaud. Let me tackle just a few points very quickly, we'll not go in depth for all of them. With respect to liaisons, I completely agree. The first thing that we have to do is relationship. I think that's when we do best when we have people who are participating in both organizations and when we have that, so any ideas that you have in which we can make sure that people find each other and we can up to discuss, we can of course get some better tooling, whichever way you have that we find people, reach out to us, we want to do this better. Uh with AI, the last question, I think I'll leave that to ISG. From the IAB side, I think we are watching, we are help- we help during the BoF preparation with Catalyst with other things, so we are watching but that question specifically with side meeting and everything it's for the ISG so hold on to that. Uh remind me any other what were the two other questions? Resolution for ITU-PP. So thanks for- bringing bringing it up. We have uh plans to participate. We are discussing uh this is still a lot of inputs coming in. Let's continue the conversation. Does any other IAB members want to add? Yeah, please go ahead.
Mirja Kühlewind: Yeah I actually um appreciate that you're coming here and you're driving this um way forward and like you're helping us to have this exchange with the relevant groups in ITU. I think actually that works very well. And as Dhruv said, like if we need to improve we can do that but I'm actually very positive there- that I've seen that. So thank you for that.
Arnaud Tadmore: There is one regret I have just that I can say that. Tommy and I discussed an idea of a workshop on Agentic AI. That would have helped remove a lot of heat and get the debates on. We didn't do it, I don't know why it happened, but uh that's something that the IAB could have done so like now it's too late but we have another way we can do it and achieve it for for July. Um for the liaison piece, in fact there is something that is simply a lack of practice in terms of the community here to understand the consensus to answer a liaison statement. Because for us, sometimes tell us don't do it. That would help us enormously because until we receive something from the community here saying ITU don't do that, I cannot show that to member states. So there are a few simple things that if the leadership works together we can pass you the message and help you organize that and it's- it's easy, it will not take that much time and everybody will be happy.
Dhruv Dhody: I- I think we have made bunch of improvements on that, we have been sending acknowledgments at least as well as nudging various groups where action is needed but as we have discussed this multiple times is just a very different fundamental way the two organizations work. We have to find a middle ground. Let's continue to talk, that's what I can offer. Any other? Uh we have one more person, but I can't see the name. Oh, Andrew.
Andrew Campling: Good morning, good evening rather, hopefully you can hear me. I was in the ICANN meeting in Mumbai last week, which was a fantastic meeting in a great venue. ICANN's agenda is probably similarly complex to the IETF's, yet from my perspective the meeting worked very well so I just wanted to urge um the LLC to- to consider India um as a future venue. Um I think it'd be excellent for us to go there and ICANN has proved it's easily possible to do so. Thank you.
Miriam Kühne: Yeah, thanks for that feedback, Andrew. That's good to hear. Um Pete.
Pete Resnick: Hi. Um in the past couple of weeks, actually, once on mailing lists and once today in the working group chair session, Jay has made some comments which at least are interpretable as the IETF LLC is the IETF. Um for some of us old crusty folks, that's not a great confusion to leave out there in the world, that the SDO is completely independent of the LLC is sort of part of the charter of the LLC, that there should be no way to influence the IETF because of something that's going on with the LLC, while the LLC does serve as a corporate sort of shell for the IETF. As far as I know, the IETF still isn't incorporated as an SDO. And I'm hoping you all can clear up whether that's just some soft talk, which is okay although I'd prefer we keep it sharper, or if I'm missing something.
Miriam Kühne: Yeah, thanks for bringing this up Pete. I- I don't know exactly what you're referring to and if there's any confusion. I- I don't know Jay if you want to con- um comment on that but um um I- I don't think we would say the, you know, the LLC is equals the IETF. No.
Jay Daley: Yeah, so to be clear Pete, I wasn't saying that the IETF LLC is an SDO. What I was saying was that the IETF LLC is constructed to at times be the LLC- sorry to at times be the IETF. The example I gave to you was if somebody takes legal action against the IETF, then the LLC will be there in court as the IETF. It will not be the 7,000 individual participants that turn up and it will not be on behalf of those because those people have no legal liability or anything in those cases, it will be the IETF LLC. This is a construct that we have created that has multiple moving parts to it. The IETF LLC is one of those moving parts. The community has created it and controls it and has given it a role and at times in that role it has to be the IETF. The other one I gave you example was the trading name, that the IETF LLC can use that trading name as the IETF for things, okay? So what I'm suggesting is that what I'm saying clearly is that this is actually quite a complex situation and to say that that nuance view that I gave you is the LLC trying to claim to be the SDO is not what in any way I think could be reasonably interpreted from that.
Pete Resnick: The problem- the problem I have is if the IETF the SDO was dragged into court for some reason, I believe the LLC would go to court. I don't think that makes the LLC the IETF. The IETF the SDO is those 7,000 individuals. Now I don't know how a court deals with that problem, but at least within the community there's got to be a sharp distinction between the LLC and the IETF the SDO and if for purposes of contracting and other things a DBA does not bother me if the IETF LLC goes out and has to sign a contract and say it is doing business as the IETF whatever, that's a business relationship. But in this community, when speaking in this community, making a very clear distinction between the LLC and the SDO I think is important and I think talking about the LLC as the IETF within this community is actually making a mistake.
Miriam Kühne: Well, thanks for pointing this out Pete, we'll- well I yeah, I don't know how to respond to this at this stage. I wasn't in there in- when the comments were made but um but yeah we'll- we'll discuss this um and how to make sure to not come across as confusing apparently. Thanks. Um Jean.
Jean-Francois Queralt: Hi, thanks, Jean-Francois Queralt. Um my comment is corresponding to what has been uh mentioned in terms of difficulties with- with the visas. In our particular case, we had two students from India who were scheduled to come here as fellows and unfortunately we just got their approval two days too late corresponding to their to their flights. Uh that's nobody's fault, I mean it's just the way it goes. I was only wondering if um when the venue was um um analyzed whether specific long holidays were considered in terms of how they would apply to visas. So what we discovered, that what we- our- that's our fault we did not pay attention to, the Chinese New Year was right in the middle. And so for 10-12 days the embassy was closed in Delhi. And that just delayed the whole thing what would otherwise have been a process that would have taken a reasonable amount of time and decent time to get the visas done because of that closure it became uh the the main problem. So I'm just wondering if that was ever um um part of the- the thinking process and if not whether it would be something that you guys would like to incorporate in future evaluations just to make sure that those kind of big gaps may not get into- into um on the way.
Miriam Kühne: Yeah, thanks Jean. I'm not sure exactly if that's part of the checklist in the for the meeting when you're planning, but um it's a good point we could- it's probably not always going to be possible, you know, to- to add this into the planning cycle, um but it's definitely something we can take into account. Thanks.
Jean-Francois Queralt: All right, thank you.
Miriam Kühne: Um who's next? Eric?
Eric Rescorla: Hi. Um so there was quite a bit of discussion prior to this meeting about the suitability of this venue and whether people would be able to attend. Uh I can't help noticing that in many of the meetings I'm in, the majority of the participants were remote and also a huge fraction of leadership including by my count the majority of the ISG and the IAB are remote. Um do you have any comments?
Miriam Kühne: Do you have any comments about what exactly?
Eric Rescorla: About the suitability of this venue of- of the venue in light of those facts.
Miriam Kühne: Well, I can point you to um Roman's statistics that he showed earlier on the slides and the distribution of remote and- and on site um compared to other meetings. Um and I can also say that I noticed that um the remote participation seems to work really well actually, you know, especially also for myself. Um and yes including myself and I'm participating remotely. This is not the only IETF I'm not participating in person, I mean so I guess it's up to everybody to individually to decide that. Um overall, I think the venue was suitable, I mean you there are a lot of people on site, especially from the country and neighboring countries, so that seems to have worked out well. I don't know if there are any other comments from other board members?
Roman Danyliw: Uh since the ISG was kind of mentioned kind of speaking from there, yeah there- there definitely is not the full complement of the ISG here in person. Uh we discussed this with ourselves in kind of planning for that. Uh as I had in my plenary slide almost all of us are- are sponsored by kind of someone and our ability to travel and participate in different venues is kind of contingent on said approval and a number of parties at least on the ISG were not kind of approved and this is what that- that turnout kind of looks like. We're waiting from the ISG side at least, we are waiting for the post-meeting survey to get feedback on, you know, what- what was the experience of kind of all the participants. In particular, we're looking for the some of the productivity measures that are reported back for the in-person survey, so we are going to have some after, you know, as an after-action some perspective on what those experiences are. From the very kind of quick looks we had, participation may also be uneven kind of across areas about how much remote and is on site, but it's just too early for us to say from the- from the data that we have right now.
Miriam Kühne: Thank you. Um any other comments? I don't see any on the stage. Um next up is Rahul again.
Rahul: Yeah. So building on my question as well as Jean-Francois's question, uh is there any long-term consideration by IETF on the venue based on visa requirements? Because just um for example here, if the meeting was not in Shenzhen but in Hong Kong, travel would become so much easier for a lot of us who have weaker passports. And uh I understand that the host would have some considerations, but in general in the long term, and again Bangkok was a very suitable venue that way because uh the visa requirements were so liberal. Uh so I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that.
Miriam Kühne: Yeah, as you've already hinted, I mean we're also dependent on the host to certain extent and um and- you know finding venues etc. And also I think what we've explained at- at earlier, you know, similar discussions is that it's also important to make sure we're kind of distributing the pain, if you will, and make it easier for people um who have difficulties getting visas go to other countries. So in this case, you know, a large um group of participants from China hopefully had it easier to participate um and- and so um I think it's important to ensure that not the same group of people, you know, gets hit by difficulties um each time. Um but yeah I hear you, I it's difficult to- to find the perfect venue in for in that respect in that respect. No other comments from our side I think on that. Arnaud.
Arnaud Tadmore: Yes. Hi, Miriam. Strange to see you again after two weeks ago when we were together. Uh so I'm not sure what Eric tried to say in his comment, um but let me take the opportunity to uh just express my very high satisfaction of being here. Uh it was my leanest experience to come in China, passing the passport, getting the- the no visa, uh and all of that was extremely good. Um and frank speaking, it's delightful. My first time in Shenzhen, I see absolutely no issue, I see the weather is fantastic, the welcome from the Chinese colleagues is excellent, we had an amazing social event, we are doing our work normally. It's a pity that some of you cannot be there. I can understand some of you have some limits by your own corporations for other reasons. Uh that's bad, but again we should not let geopolitics come into this organization. We should not. Right, very simple. We are going to have enough problems on that and we are going to see what happens in November, I'm really curious, but we should not allow that to continue. That will be a dangerous path for the IETF to continue on this direction. Uh so that's one comment. I re- so thank you for organizing this. Um it must have been a long way for our host to do all of this work, and I'm very happy to be here and uh to do our work as normal. The second thing I would like to say as well is to come back on Pete's comment. Uh I think Pete makes a very important point, uh we should not confuse the two sides and we should be very, very clear on the demarcation uh that he mentioned. Thank you.
Miriam Kühne: Thanks Arnaud. Um Warren Kumari, I think I'm next.
Warren Kumari: Just a quick follow on from what Ananda said. I found this to be a great venue. Um everything's worked really nicely, people have been great. Yes, it was annoying to have to get a visa, but it turns out that's what most people have to do for most countries, so you know we have a lot of people participants from China that's I think is the right thing to do and good on us.
Miriam Kühne: Thanks Warren. Um Martin.
Martin: Hi. So um I'm not sure that the LLC board has really listened to the community when it comes to either China or the US and I would suggest that geopolitics is very much a big factor of what we have to deal with as one of the factors in making a decision. And uh I- I think that those people who have suggested otherwise are um denying reality to some extent. So I would like to sort of ask whether or not you consider this particular meeting to be a success in that regard uh and think about metrics that matter as opposed to just the numbers of people that turn up. Uh if people are looking to continue participation, you know the 400ish people who turned up in person this time, if those people continue to participate then maybe that would be a success. If they do not, then maybe we can learn something from that. And so I suggest that someone track that. Thank you.
Miriam Kühne: Uh thanks for that suggestion. Yeah we can definitely not evaluate this at this point, but yeah. I don't know if anybody else wants to comment on that. No. Um then Roman.
Roman Danyliw: Hi there, is my media working now?
Miriam Kühne: Yes.
Roman Danyliw: That's an excellent prelude to what I'm about to say. Um so I wanted to push back on Arnaud's point that this isn't about geopolitics. I actually come at come to the opposite conclusion of of Martin about politics being important. I think that the ISG and the LLC were correct in their- you know discussion uh with community about this leading up to the selection that effectiveness and the ability to get the work of the organization done is- is the right lodestar to have. And while I agree with Roman that um finding places where we can be effective is getting harder over time uh as geopolitics intrudes on our work more and more. Um I think there's been some really unique challenges with this venue that don't exist other places in the world. Um the regulatory uh impositions we've seen with regard to the network are fairly unique uh in if you look at a- at a global context. So, uh I would encourage uh the ISG and the LLC to take a careful and close look uh in retrospect at this meeting and the challenges we faced um and to take that into account um as you look at future venue selections uh whether uh the sorts of challenges we've seen this week are likely to occur in other places and whether we're going to be able to be effective uh with the venues we select.
Miriam Kühne: Yeah, thanks for the suggestion um Richard, we'll definitely be doing that like with uh any other venue that um we're going to. Thanks.
Roman Danyliw: So Miriam, if I might on that particular kind of topic, uh Richard you highlight you highlight kind of a good point which is that uh about kind of what might be kind of unique challenges and is there after any meeting a learning learning experience on, you know, is there something that we learned here that might drive how we choose venues again in the future. So I would invite everyone that has interest in venue selection criteria to come to Gen Dispatch tomorrow, we have a draft being presented on the topic of network requirements and if we if the community wants to sharpen what's required for the network kind of for the meeting, this draft is one potential version of what that might kind of look like, so please come to that- that discussion. The LLC I think ultimately will act on whatever is the community's consensus uh the community consensus on what should be the venue selection criteria.
Richard: And and thanks for plugging for- for my draft Roman. Um I wanted to flag that a bit more broadly though for- for the- uh IESG and LLC right, the question was posed to the LLC and to the IESG, will this meeting be effective? Right, there was a proactive uh prediction that you guys were asked to make. And so I think as you're having board meetings, IESG retreats, things like that, I think it would be useful for you these organizations in- you know internally to do some introspection as to whether those predictions turned out to be accurate or whether you might make different decisions in the future.
Miriam Kühne: Yeah, thanks um for that addition. Um Tony.
Tony Lee: Hi, Tony Lee. I'm an American. Uh the way the United States government is operating right now um the IETF cannot protect anyone. Uh the government is running around um basically bands of thugs and they are detaining anyone and everyone that they find objectionable. Um we've seen them detain citizens, we've seen them detain people who were legally there. Uh there's nothing that's going to happen legally that's going to protect anyone who comes to the US.
Miriam Kühne: Thanks Tony, yeah I don't kind of comment on this um at this stage. Thanks for this um piece of information. Anyone else wants to comment? No. Um then I see one more, Benjamin.
Benjamin: Hi. So as a new participant in meetings with the IETF, uh the one thing that I have learned is at least from many of you is that work at the IETF happens on the mailing list. So to me, looking at the number of new participants within this group, uh these are a lot of people that I would not have met going to another meeting and there are a lot of people that in the future could then participate in the mailing lists that may have never done that had they not been able to attend otherwise. So I personally am happy with this venue choice and have had an excellent time here.
Miriam Kühne: That's great to hear. Thanks Benjamin. Um I don't see any more questions in the queue, we're a little bit over time so I think that's it. Thank you all for joining and keeping around and have a great evening there if you're there in person.
Roman Danyliw: Miriam, before we sign off, Jay do you want to repeat uh the- the social focused uh activity kind of tonight uh with the lightshow?
Jay Daley: Yes. This is a reminder that tonight we have a very special light show arranged by CNNIC and Huawei. So this will be um starting at 8:00 p.m. for 15 minutes, there will be a light show projected across multiple buildings in the city center um as a welcome to the IETF. And- uh I'm told the best place to see this from is the Civic Center where there will be music as well for that. So 8:00, it's about 10-15 minute walk, you should- see you all there.
Roman Danyliw: Was there another question? Oh, I guess the microphone is off. So enjoy. We've provided a lot of- social maps uh in front of the doors of this meeting room so feel free to take any one. Enjoy.
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